Some property owners are hard to work with – and some are nearly impossible. In this Billboard Mastery podcast we’re going to review some practical strategies to get deals done with the hardest negotiators, as well as when to simply walk away.
Episode 137: Tough Negotiators Transcript
Most people are good-natured and fair in their negotiations. They understand the concept of win-win, that it has to be something of favor to both parties. They're amenable, they will listen, and you can get deals done with them fairly easily. Then there are people who are tougher negotiators, but they're still fair. They're good-natured, but they drive a harder bargain. And then occasionally you get those who are nearly impossible, the toughest type of person to negotiate with. This is Frank Rolfe with the Billboard Mastery podcast. We're gonna talk about the toughest negotiations, the people that are nearly impossible. Try to give you a little direction on what you do when someone is not just slightly non-pliable, but a virtual piece of concrete. How do you get things done with them? And let's first acknowledge that you can't always get things done. There are some people out there who are so unreasonable, so unwilling to listen to what you have to say, to listen to common sense or reason, that you just can't get deals forged. Back when I had my billboards in Los Angeles, I had a billboard that was burned in the LA riots.
It was burned before I ever came on the scene. I was buying a portfolio of underperforming signs, and here was a sign and it was burned, so I would have to go in and structurally rebuild it and get engineering and everything else. And it was only a one-sided sign, and it was above a shopping center in Los Angeles. So I went to the owner of the center and I said, "Okay, well, I'm the new guy on the scene and I'd like to get this sign back in, back in order." And the guy said, "Well, before you can do that, I want to get paid up all the lot rent that I've never been paid." And I said, "Well, gosh, that could be a problem because that would be like $10,000 in unpaid rent from the prior owner. And he hadn't paid you during the LA riot period because of course the sign was destroyed." And the guy said, "I don't care about any of that stuff. I want my money. So I'm not even gonna talk to you until you give me that $10,000." So I said, "Well, gosh, if I don't come in and fix this thing up, you'll never get a penny from it, ever."
"Well, I don't care." "And it'll look terrible hanging there above your property." "No, I don't care." No matter what I did with this guy, he would not listen to reason. I tried to meet with him. No, he wouldn't meet with me. In fact, he wouldn't even talk to me until I sent him $10,000. So I just said, "Forget it. Sorry I bothered. You are impossible." So don't feel bad with the tough negotiators if you actually can't forge a deal because it happens to everyone. There's some people out there that are just impossible. There was a Pawn Stars episode once of a guy who brought in a Rolls-Royce, and he said, "This Rolls-Royce was owned by Johnny Cash and it's worth half a million dollars. I want a half a million dollars for it." The Pawn Stars guy, as he does in most episodes, called in a car expert to look at the car. The guy walks in and suddenly says, "Oh, it's one of those Johnny Cash Rolls-Royces, huh?" He said, "What do you mean one of those? Like there's more than one?" "Oh, yeah, there's many. There's like 10 of them." "Why?"
"Well, because every time Johnny Cash had a gold record, A&M recording studio gave him a black Rolls-Royce. And let me guess, there's a plate on the dashboard that says, you know, property of Johnny Cash." And he said, "Yes, there is." "Yeah, this is just one of those standard cars." And he said, "Okay, well, what are they worth?" He said, "Oh, the last one at auction brought 50 grand." So the Pawn Stars guy turns to the guy who'd been asking half a million and says, "Well, you heard from the expert. This is not really a rare or valuable car. This is a car that's worth about $50,000, and I'll have to have a markup at the pawn shop. So the most I could pay for this car is 25,000." To which the guy said, "I don't want... I don't care. I want 500,000 for it." As though none of that had ever occurred. It didn't matter what the facts were. Didn't matter there was a similar car that just sold. Didn't matter that person at all. They were an impossible negotiator. So sometimes you just can't fix it. You just can't fix stupid.
So sometimes you just have to let it go. But what if you don't want to let it go? What if you want to still try to make it happen? You acknowledge the person is the toughest negotiator. Okay, then what do you do? Well, the first thing I found you need to do with the really tough negotiators is you gotta do it in person. It's nearly impossible to break through their hard outer shell unless you meet with them face-to-face. Because if you meet with them face-to-face, maybe, just maybe, you can bond in some way and they're a little easier to work with. Bonding is this natural force that happens when people like you where they let their guard down to some degree because they like you and they trust you and they want to help you. But you'll never achieve that by phone, and you'll never achieve that by letter, and you'll never get there on an email, but you might get there in person. So you've gotta meet with the person face-to-face and hope there's some degree of bonding. And then you've gotta find something to make them interested.
A lot of times they're tough negotiators because there's no factor they find very compelling, nothing to really drive them forward. So I once met with a guy and he's just like, "Yeah, I don't really want to do the billboard deal." "Why not?" "It's just not enough money for me to jack with. I make a ton of money and I don't even want to waste my time talking with you or reading a document to only make $400 a month." And I said, "Well, then how about you just give it to somebody? Do you have any grandkids?" "Well, I've got one granddaughter." I'm like, "Why don't you just give her the billboard money?" Just her fun money. She can blow it, she can save it, she can buy a car with it, she can go to college with it. Think about that. You're gonna give the girl almost five grand a year. Every year means nothing to you. Think how big that would be to her. Didn't know what would happen, but the guy said, "Hmm, that's not a bad idea. I could just make this for her." And that's how we got the deal done. Suddenly, I wasn't negotiating with him, who felt the whole thing was beneath him, but instead was negotiating on behalf of his granddaughter, and therefore we were able to get a deal struck.
Another reason sometimes people are seemingly impossible to negotiate with is they don't want to take the time and the trouble to work on that project. And to get around that, keep telling them that they have no time, effort, or risk in your billboard proposal, because sometimes they think they will and they just don't want to get involved in anything. They just don't want to spend the time. They don't want to go out to the property. They don't want to stomp around in their muddy boots.
So just keep reemphasizing with them, "Hey, look, you have no time, effort, or risk in this proposal." That's why you'll see in almost everything I've ever written anyone, I put those words in it. Because often with the tough negotiator, the problem is he kind of does want the money, he just doesn't want the work. And so he's gonna chase you off so he doesn't have to do anything, because often telling you no is his safest and easiest way out, even though there is the glimmer of interest there. So keep reinforcing you will do it all when you talk to them. They don't want to say that, it makes them sound lazy, but deep down that is what's holding them back. If you reassure them that they are never going to have to do anything ever on your billboard sign, that can be a huge improvement. Also, some people don't want to do it 'cause they don't want to pay the legal cost of having your document read by their attorney. If that's the case, see if you can establish how much money that is and tell them that if they sign the lease, you'll go ahead and throw that into it too, and in that first year, you'll also reimburse them for their legal costs if that's what the holdup is.
Getting people to quantify what's stopping them is often a very, very good method to solving those obstructions. One of the favorite things that I've learned over the years when talking with someone who's a tough negotiator is simply to say, "What do I have to do to get this deal done? What do I have to do? What do you need from me to make this happen?" And often in answering that question, that will give you a roadmap to filling in whatever the holes are that's holding that person back. Now, I have done deals with people that I thought there was no chance of getting a deal done. They were so solid in their resolve not to be very workable or very pliable, but I've pulled that off, but only through meeting them face-to-face, only through thinking outside the box of what is holding them back and trying to solve it using creative thinking. You can't just keep throwing an email or a letter or a call at a brick wall. It won't get you anywhere.
You've gotta try a new path. But if you try all of it and you still can't get a deal forged, don't feel bad about it. It happens to everyone. There are some people you simply can't get to sign the bottom line. But even then, don't give up on them. People change over time. Follow up with them periodically. See if maybe they have gotten a little softer in their approach. And over time, you can often tame the toughest negotiator. This is Frank Rolfe, the Billboard Mastery podcast. Hope you enjoyed this. Talk to you again soon.